- Griffinmoon
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Re: Unanswered question speculation thread (spoilery)
M'thinks that each of those human kids of Cajiri's acquaintance would have been parked in as one paidhi for each of the ship/station, the island and the atevi.
- Surtac
- Antipodean Assassin
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Re: Unanswered question speculation thread (spoilery)
Yes. A 'fortunate three', perhaps.
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- Eupathic Impulse
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Re: Unanswered question speculation thread (spoilery)
I think a truly man'chi-less ateva (one who can neither offer or receive man'chi) would probably be on the insane side. Humans don't merely lack man'chi, they merely have a related bonding emotion that is differently structured allowing for a function of social cohesion. Experienced humans or atevi can even learn to predict the way the other works. (Ilisidi for example predicts that Bren has a well-intentioned "man'chi" to the refugees since she knows Bren almost like an extra son by that point.)
A man'chi-less ateva would be something like a human psychopath or sociopath.
Speaking of which, CJC was also hinting that Ilisidi was really truly in failing health and not just complaining about it as she's done from the beginning. (I guess maybe a bit of Mary Sue in hindsight...) I really think Bren would be visibly devastated by her passing, possibly in ways that atevi would find hard to understand.
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Thread Starter- nadiani
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Re: Unanswered question speculation thread (spoilery)
The text is pretty specific on the nature of man’chi-less atevi. They’re either a sociopath or an aiji. Much like, to be fair, a sociopathic human: they’re either a wildly unpredictable and potentially dangerous, or a politician ;)
As for Bren’s reaction to Ilisidi’s (inevitable) death - I wonder if atevi might not read it as him struggling with a man’chi being broken that was very central to his identity? Possibly he’d need to have some long talks with Tabini as a means of “confirming” his existing man’chi to Tabini and “transferring” his man’chi from Ilisidi to him. Algini, I believe, discusses the process with Bren after Jase-ji’s semi-lie about a dead father.
Trade and common interest have proven, in the end, more powerful in human affairs than all the warships ever launched.
- scenario_dave
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Re: Unanswered question speculation thread (spoilery)
nadiani wrote:
The thing I’m really curious about is - what happens when, inevitably, “mainline” humans meet Mospheirans and Phoenix crew? We know that they’re close enough in space to be able to reach each other well within a human lifetime, at least with the help of K’yo jump tech. Which then brings up a whole other set of questions like “how did Phoenix raise absolutely no guide stars after her ill-famed jump if she was still close enough to home for that to be true?” I had always sort of assumed that the Earth of humans was in another galaxy or something, and Phoenix had fallen through a wormhole or some such into a completely impossibly remote region of space. But I guess not…
My impression on this is that the only people who knew what was going on was the bridge crew, more specifically the captain and the navigator. Either their map got messed up so they didn't detect the stars because the computer memory was faulty or the captain decided that it was too dangerous to go back.
It took several years to get to alpha station. It might have taken them 50 years to get back to where the rest of humanity was. They could either do 25 jumps one at at time gathering fuel after each one with no maintenance on the ship or they could build a station where they were. Then wait 20 or 30 years for the population to increase, then use the refurbished ship to plant a new station a few light years away. Wait another 20 or 30 years and build a third station. They would never get home but their descendants would. So the captain lied to everyone and falsified the records so future captains would know the general direction but not exactly where home was. The ship people live on the ship their whole lives. They don't really care where the station was settled. They cared about getting their ship serviced.
- scenario_dave
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Re: Unanswered question speculation thread (spoilery)
A possible plot point. The Dowager was old and failing. She also didn't have an heir. Her two great-grandchildren were already taken. She was the Aji of the east. If she died without an heir, the east would fall apart. So I think that she'd get sick. Still smart as ever but no more riding and traveling would be hard. She'd go back to the East to her home and select her heir. She'd select a ~10 year old girl to succeed her and have Bren and his people be her regent. She'd stay in her castle pulling the strings and send Bren and the girl out to solve problems.
The Dowager needs an heir that's above Eastern politics but they have to be from her line and from the East. She firmly believes that Bren's Manchi is firmly to her and to the Aji and a vague kind of Manchi to the survival of both of their species. He doesn't have inappropriate ties. He can look at the situation as an outsider much like she did in the West for many years. She'd have 5, 10, maybe 20 years to teach her heir. Any heir needs to understand and deal with humans. Human's aren't evil as a group but they can be as much fools as Atevi can be. You need to understand their blind spots as well as Atevi blindspots to rule well. He can take the child into the west into Atevi society to teach her about both human's and western Atevi who are just as foriegn to many easterners.
Last edited by scenario_dave (8/24/2026 9:44 pm)
- scenario_dave
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Re: Unanswered question speculation thread (spoilery)
The thing I’m really curious about is - what happens when, inevitably, “mainline” humans meet Mospheirans and Phoenix crew? We know that they’re close enough in space to be able to reach each other well within a human lifetime, at least with the help of K’yo jump tech. Which then brings up a whole other set of questions like “how did Phoenix raise absolutely no guide stars after her ill-famed jump if she was still close enough to home for that to be true?” I had always sort of assumed that the Earth of humans was in another galaxy or something, and Phoenix had fallen through a wormhole or some such into a completely impossibly remote region of space. But I guess not…
My guess on that would be that the land of the humans would be a long trip from where they are. Say it takes 50 years with a ship like the Phoenix and 30 years with a newer model. Too far to have meaningful trade. Maybe a second ship comes through with refugees fleeing something. Suddenly, Bren's humans would have 200 years of human history and technology to catch up on. They'd have another set of refugees to settle and another ship with a different ships crew that think it should be in charge. So you've now got 6 type humans. Planet bound people. The station refugees who are still different then the planet humans. Humans still on the station who get along with the Atevi who have started to think a little different then the people on the planet. The Phoenix crew. The new refugees who were stationers and the new ships crew. Its far enough in the future that one of Cajiri kids is the ships Paidhi now. The Paidhi to the humans will have their work cut out for them plus the Atevi now have to deal with 200 years of technology dumped on them.
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