- starexplorer
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Re: Three Body Problem
Great, looking forward to the more complete reaction!
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- Surtac
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Re: Three Body Problem
Right. Here's a start, based on a dump of my notes in sequence, with some explanatory contextual discussion wrapped around those pieces.
I will try to avoid spoilers.
This book reminded me of a lot of (mainly older) SF that I have read over the years, including the following:
Arthur C Clarke - The Nine Billion Names of God, and 2001: A Space Odyssey
Ken MacLeod - The Restoration Game,
Joe Haldeman - Forever Peace
Larry Niven - What Can You Say About Chocolate Covered Manhole Covers?
And of course Asimov's Nightfall.
Early on I was also reminded of my 2010 visit to the Beijing ancient observatory and astronomy museum - a fascinating place I'd love to get back to.
Von Neumann's human computer system in chapter 17 brought back a whole stack of university study and work memories, reminding me of books by Wirth, Dijkstra, Tannenbaum along with early 1970s classics such as Bell's Game Playing With Computers and Weinberg's The Psychology of Computer Programming. And later classics such as Trevor Housley on data communications; Ed Yourdon and Larry Constantine on structured programming.
At 55% in I started to have issues with the levels of revolutionary rhetoric being thown around by the characters. It felt like it might be parrotting something from Chinese history or literature but I'm not familiar enough with either field (ie not at all familiar) to know if it may be true. (Having now finished the book, I can attest that a lot of relevant historical context is actually given in the collected Translators Notes at the end of the text. But I didn't bother with following the reference links to those notes as I was reading - maybe I should have.)
"My god! it's full of philosophy!" Sorry - couldn't resist that but this book was a constant reminder of the links between theoretical physics and philosophy. In some ways it reads as a love letter to physics.
Was that a sneaky Big Bang vs Steady State reference in the discussion of human rates of research late in the book? I think it was.
Star, if you want to try the book again, I suggest you start with the Translator's Postscript. It gives some valuable context imo.
Also, I may have found the root cause of your frustration with attempting the book and engaging with it. Something I read since finishing it said that the Cultural Revolution material in the first chapters of the American edition was originally positioned more towards the centre of the volume to make it less immediately obvious to Chinese state censors in its original form. I thought you ought to know.
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- starexplorer
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Re: Three Body Problem
That’s very helpful. On the final matter, i couldn’t help but wonder what the political meaning was of that beginning material. It felt so political and Chinese historical that i was sure there must be some implication for its publication in China. What that was I had no idea. Now apparently it was something potentially too political and too controversial. Which means the way it’s assembled outside China is the way the author apparently intended. Which doesn’t help me, unless the idea is that the accommodation the author made for Chinese censors actually made the book more readable….
Still not sure whether I will brave a Round 5
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Thread Starter- Surtac
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Re: Three Body Problem
It's interesting, isn't it?
I'm of an age such that the Cultural Revolution happened while I was in high school and in my part of the world at the time in Tasmania it was not a major news topic iirc. Occasionally there would be tv news footage of a visiting delegation in their blue Mao suits but it wasn't a common sight. Significant re-engagement between the two countries occurred much later under the Whitlam and then Hawke/Keating federal labour governments. It's worth remembering too that there was very little media access into or out of China at the time. And I don't recall seeing the same levels of sensitivity towards real or implied criticism within Chinese society as we are used to seeing nowadays. Maybe it was still there internally, but not so visible to us externally as it is nowadays. But that's pure speculative musing on my part.
One more point I did want to make about the book was that I was really surprised at the level of nostalgia it evinced in me for my old computer studies days and my early IT career years. It really managed to strike a chord in my memories.
Will that be enough to make me read the next books in the sequence? I honestly don't know.
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- starexplorer
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Re: Three Body Problem
I appreciate the nostalgia it evoked in you, ‘tac. I don’t have that background sleeping in my distant memory.
As to my own awareness of sensitivity within Chinese culture in the early days of the opening with the West, I do have one experience that opened my eyes. In 1979, I got to know a visiting Chinese scientist through research I was doing at my undergraduate university. Everything was cordial and collegial for a time, until I naively brought up Taiwan. Not knowing what landmine I was stepping on, I offered something along the lines of, ”I’m curious about the tension over Taiwan. What’s the big deal? Couldn’t the whole thing be resolved by each country just agreeing to be two separate independent countries?” I probably don’t need to describe the turn in the conversation. It felt like he turned into a robot repeating the party line. Was he afraid of the consequences were he to engage with me? Were his feelings genuine? I don’t know. But he got very angry, and kept repeating “China and Taiwan are one country!” Over and over. No discussion was possible. Apparently it was a sensitive issue. 😉
Last edited by starexplorer (1/22/2024 2:18 am)
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Thread Starter- Surtac
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Re: Three Body Problem
Hmmn.
Apropos the above discussion, Eldest Daughter just brought this to my attention. I have to say I'm not terribly surprised in hindsight.
Science fiction awards held in China under fire for excluding authors | Hugo awards | The Guardian
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- Aja Jin
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Re: Three Body Problem
Surtac wrote:
Hmmn.
Apropos the above discussion, Eldest Daughter just brought this to my attention. I have to say I'm not terribly surprised in hindsight.
Science fiction awards held in China under fire for excluding authors | Hugo awards | The Guardian
there are a lot of discussions on Bluesky about this. Lots of pissed off pros and fans, and no explaination of what happened. Lots of discussion of how the system works (passing of responsibility from Worldcon to Worldcon, no external oversight, no requirement to even follow the rules). It’s a colossal mess.
- Surtac
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Re: Three Body Problem
Yeah. I haven't trusted the Hugos and Worldcon since the Sad Puppies showed how easy it was for the Hugos to be gamed. I suspect that's what happened here to get Worldcon to China in the first place. Once there, of course, they were then ripe for manipulation.
Btw, is Bluesky any good? I fled Xitter as soon as the muskrat started to actively destroy it and haven't found a replacement I feel comfortable in yet.
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- starexplorer
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Re: Three Body Problem
Well this is illuminating, for several reasons, not the least of which is my awareness of the fragmentation of my attention in recent years. There was a time not so long ago when I would have been well aware of what was going on with the Hugos, and a long list of other things. I’ve had to invest energy in managing many life changes, and I see the need to pull the threads together. I believe it really started with Covid and the changes it wrought and has (probably) culminated in my relocation and getting settled in a new place.
In any case, it’s a sad reminder that what should be a celebration of books and creativity has once again been politicized. And that the world is a funhouse of distorting mirrors, in which each must stake out their own individual position on sensibility and rationality.
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Thread Starter- Aja Jin
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Re: Three Body Problem
Yeah. I haven't trusted the Hugos and Worldcon since the Sad Puppies showed how easy it was for the Hugos to be gamed. I suspect that's what happened here to get Worldcon to China in the first place. Once there, of course, they were then ripe for manipulation.
Btw, is Bluesky any good? I fled Xitter as soon as the muskrat started to actively destroy it and haven't found a replacement I feel comfortable in yet.
Bluesky is ok, good number of sci-fi folks there. I have invites if you want one.
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