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11/26/2021 11:05 am  #1


Unification of Foreigner and Alliance/Union books

Pretty often, one sees posts online regarding unification of the Foreigner and the Alliance/Union books. This is often followed by "She said they are different universes", and discussions about difference in hyperdrive/jump technologies. This is all correct.

However, there is another "technology". Qhal gates, which exploit some unknown Physics that seems unrelated to jumps, but provide a way to move from place to place, and from time to time. 

So what if the gates also work "between" universes?  Why not? And Bingo, we have a solution that lies within the known bounds of her universes.   

 

11/26/2021 12:14 pm  #2


Re: Unification of Foreigner and Alliance/Union books

An elegant solution, dear fellow!  


http://strengthofthehills.tripod.com/hanilanguageandculturepage/

The date I joined the original board: 12/04/2002
 
 

11/26/2021 1:21 pm  #3


Re: Unification of Foreigner and Alliance/Union books

We know from the introduction of the Morgaine saga that there were ties to Union-Alliance.  I'm sure this is what CJC might have in mind.


"Those who can give up essential liberties in order to purchase a little extra security deserve neither liberty nor security." - Benjamin Franklin
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." - Marcus Aurelius
 

11/26/2021 2:17 pm  #4


Re: Unification of Foreigner and Alliance/Union books

joekc6nlx wrote:

We know from the introduction of the Morgaine saga that there were ties to Union-Alliance.  I'm sure this is what CJC might have in mind.

Yes, the Morgaine books are definitely in the A/U series, just, as she says, "down the timeline"

     Thread Starter
 

11/26/2021 6:00 pm  #5


Re: Unification of Foreigner and Alliance/Union books

Aja Jin wrote:

Pretty often, one sees posts online regarding unification of the Foreigner and the Alliance/Union books. This is often followed by "She said they are different universes", and discussions about difference in hyperdrive/jump technologies. This is all correct.

However, there is another "technology". Qhal gates, which exploit some unknown Physics that seems unrelated to jumps, but provide a way to move from place to place, and from time to time. 

So what if the gates also work "between" universes?  Why not? And Bingo, we have a solution that lies within the known bounds of her universes.   

Yes, that would be a possible solution.  If we had a few more clues about how the gates work ... ?  I can see a close re-read of the Morgaine books in my near future for just such research purposes.

Meanwhile, I am reminded of another possible connection rabbit-hole I haven't finished exploring yet. I think I'll prioritise that to this week's research task and see where it leads.
 


It's a strange world.  Let's keep it that way.
 

11/26/2021 8:16 pm  #6


Re: Unification of Foreigner and Alliance/Union books

to clarify my previous post, there's a reference in the introduction to "Gate of Ivril", which I cannot get to right now, as it's buried and I have no light in that room.  I wish I could remember what it said, but it's been years since I read it.  But it refers to the team that was assembled to destroy the Gates and a local record that stated they had been on a planet and passed through what later became Union Space (iirc).


"Those who can give up essential liberties in order to purchase a little extra security deserve neither liberty nor security." - Benjamin Franklin
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." - Marcus Aurelius
 

11/26/2021 8:38 pm  #7


Re: Unification of Foreigner and Alliance/Union books

Here's the relevant snippet from the prologue to Gate of Ivrel that purports to be from a Union Science Bureau document:

Prologue (p 10 Orbit / Futura pb 1977)
The Gates exist. We can therefore assume that they exist in the future and in the past, but we cannot ascertain the extent of their existence until we use them.  According  to present qhal belief, which is without substantiation, world upon world has been disrupted: and upon such worlds elements are greatly muddled.  Among these anomalies may be survivals from our own  area, which might prove lethal to us if taken into backtime.
It is the Bureau’s opinion that the Gates, once passed, must be sealed from the far side of space and time, or we continually risk the possibility of another time-implosion as ruined the qhal.  It is theorized by the qhal themselves that this area of space has witnessed one prior time-implosion of undetermined magnitude, perhaps of a few years of span or of millennia, which was occasioned by the first Gate and receptor discovered by the qhal, to the ruin first of the unknown alien culture and subsequently of their own.  There is therefore a constant risk as long as there will ever exist a single Gate, that our own existence could be similarly affected upon any instant.  It is therefore the majority opinion of the Bureau that utilization of the Gates should be permitted, but only for the dispatch of a force to close them , or destroy them.  A team has been prepared.  Return for them will of course be impossible; and the length  of the mission will be of indeterminate duration, so that, on the one hand, it may result in the immediate entrapment or destruction of the team, or, on the other, it may prove to be a task of such temporal scope that one or a dozen generations of the expeditionary force may not be sufficient to reach the ultimate Gate.
 
Fyi.


It's a strange world.  Let's keep it that way.
 

11/26/2021 8:54 pm  #8


Re: Unification of Foreigner and Alliance/Union books

That quote of Surtac's ^ is from "Journal, Union Science Bureau" and the Bureau is cited several times, leading us to believe it's from the Union side of the A/U universe, which has been confirmed by later sources.  


http://strengthofthehills.tripod.com/hanilanguageandculturepage/

The date I joined the original board: 12/04/2002
 
 

11/26/2021 9:36 pm  #9


Re: Unification of Foreigner and Alliance/Union books

Yes, while the later books all contain versions of the prologue that repeat and paraphrase the same information and background to the stories, Gate is the only one to explicitly cite the Bureau and imply Union as the source of the closure team.  The later book prologues do confirm the initial size of the team as 100 individuals.
 


It's a strange world.  Let's keep it that way.
 

11/27/2021 3:59 am  #10


Re: Unification of Foreigner and Alliance/Union books

My understanding is that we have long accepted a relation between the Morgaine books and the A/U Universe, that they are in the same universe however unspecified. I’m a little unclear on the initial proposition here about the Foreigner Universe and the Qhal gates. CJC has said they’re not the same universe. That’s not definitive, IMO, as the author (also IMO) is not the only or definitive authority on her work once it’s out in the world and has a cultural life of its own. But it’s evidence. And the technical details, also evidence. So what is the motivation to unite these sets of books? I see that we can create a scenario - in the present case using the Qhal gates to go between universes - in which we can get them to unite or overlap or something. But what does this accomplish? What is behind the desire to get Foreigner and A/U into the same universe? Or multiverse? Is it elegance? Is it efficiency? Is it to resolve some tension in our minds as readers, that an author we love has written two different universes and we are made uncomfortable somehow and wish to fix it? Are we writing our own fiction in telling the story this way? If we accept this proposition, can’t we unite any two disparate universes by inventing a similar solution? I know not every creator of universes has also created gates somewhere in her work, but we can invent that. I am really wondering, in this familiar perennial conversation, exactly what we all think explains the persistence of the issue. What difficulty are we attempting to resolve? 


One world -- or none
 

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