"But politics and logic rarely seem to mix well these days".

Those two items have *never* mixed--not even a little.

Local ACT health authorities have opened up vaccine queues to pretty much all adults.  So we rang last night to get a booking for 21yo Youngest Daughter, who works with vulnerable people as a children's swimming instructor.

Because of our federal government's complete cock-up of vaccine acquisition and supply processes, the earliest booking she could get isn't until October 4.  Not happy Jan.

 

Got my first jab this morning.  Second dose booked for November 6.

Star, I agree with you on the relative risks assessment.  I organised my first jab as soon as my neurologist went through all the known risk numbers with me and said "in relative terms ýou're basically low risk - just get whichever one they'll give you".  So that's what I've done.
 

Hi all.  Since I got my second shot at the beginning of March, I'll likely be lining up for a booster this fall.  I've been traveling this year post-vaccination again, New Orleans, Virginia (DC area), and an awesome train vacation to Yellowstone/Yosemite/Glacier, 5 nights on the train and 10 in hotels/lodges.  Still waiting to see if the river cruise in France will be a go this fall.  (If I were France, I wouldn't let me in, but we'll see.)

joekc6nlx wrote:

starexplorer wrote:

Joe, I agree with you that the FDA ought to be prioritizing studying the data and determining when and whether they can approve the vaccines for general use. And also that this shouldn’t be political. It’s a health issue, and we should all be able to assess the situation from a purely medical point of view.
I am curious about one thing you said, about waiting for the FDA approval. I look at the situation and come to the conclusion that the virus is a greater risk to me than the vaccine. I’m wondering what your thinking is on this, and whether maybe you are concerned that the vaccine may be a greater danger to you than the virus?

In my opinion, and this is my opinion gleaned from reading other sources than Dr. Fauci, the mainstream media, etc., the virus is in the same family as the common cold.  When a disease has a less than 2% mortality rate, yet the government is pushing the vaccine, I wonder why.  The flu has a higher mortality rate than COVID, but I guess it's where you get your data.  Here's another thought:  We now have the Delta variant for which the vaccine doesn't work.  Just how many vaccinations does one have to have before the government decides that it's not necessary? From a legal standpoint:  In this country, under the Fourth Amendment, I have the right to refuse. I also have a right to travel freely, so "vaccine passports" are illegal under the Fourteenth Amendment. I don't have to blindly submit to orders to get vaccinations any longer, since I retired from the military.  I have a choice.  I don't trust the vaccines, I don't trust the manufacturers, and I don't trust certain people who are pushing the vaccines.  Having said that, if someone gets the jab, fine with me.  It's their right to choose.  I get the flu shot every fall, I've had my pneumonia shots, my shingles shots, my tetanus shots, yellow fever, malaria, etc.  I still believe that this particular vaccine is undertested.  Still doing clinical trials with a portion of the population, and the Tuskegee Experiment wasn't that long ago.  Thank you, I'll pass.
 

Thanks for your thoughts, Joe. We definitely see some things differently, but I’m glad to understand your point of view. I want to respond to some of what you said, but I certainly do not want to aggravate you. You are entitled to your own choices. This is a free country, as we say!

Yes you are right to mention that the coronavirus family causes many common colds, perhaps, 25% or so. However this virus is not those viruses, ie even though some coronaviruses cause the common cold, SARS CoV2 is not at this point a common cold virus.

I don’t see any value in debating mortality rates or comparisons to the flu. Maybe you are right that it depends where you get your data. To me, the easiest way to tell that this virus is something to be very concerned about is to look at health systems. With a functioning healthcare system, the mortality is way less than with an overwhelmed system. All over the world, many people with Covid have developed an interstitial pneumonia requiring intubation and ventilation. So many people can need this, that the healthcare system can become severely strained in a way that doesn’t happen with most infections. That’s very bad. Bad for one’s body and a horrible experience to go through. And many people die from that pneumonia, or other sequelae. Note that I say that not to suggest that we primarily worry about intubation, but to make the point that this may be a better indication of the threat of the virus than comparing numbers to colds and flu, as I see it.

As far as the Delta variant, it’s not that the vaccines don’t work. Far from it. In most cases, vaccinated people who get Delta are well protected from serious illness and death. Vaccines may have some diminished efficacy in comparison to the original strain, but that’s very different from the idea that they don’t work. The issue is how much does immunity wane over time. As a doctor, I’ve finally become concerned (I wasn’t until recently) by recent scientific papers and data that show that immunity often wanes over time. This argues for a booster. This is not unusual: the hepatitis b vaccine has a three shot sequence and polio has a four shot sequence. It appears that the third shot raises antibody levels by between 5- and 20- fold, which may mean no more boosters will be needed, though only time will tell. One of the most serious concerns about variants however, is generating more of them. The more people have the virus replicating within their bodies, and for the greatest time, the greater the likelihood of producing new variants through mutation. This is a threat that concerns me greatly. We are lucky Covid kills so relatively few; I’d hate to see a new variant that kills far more.

Personally, I believe the ultimate way out of this will be something that is actively being researched: a pan-coronavirus vaccine, one that is effective against all coronaviruses and targets areas of these viruses that are less able or unable to mutate while retaining their integrity and virulence.

On the politics - we agree that this should not be political. I don’t want to get into that any more than you do. Let’s keep it a health decision. Whatever you decide, I wish you good health and safety!